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Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 11:27
von Fpunk
Hi Brewers,

I'm startiung to make my beers in Germany and looking for a Sanitizer without rinsing with whater. I usually use Iodophor or Alcohol 70% but here looks not to easy to find. I always used these products by spraying without rinsing
Which sanitizers do you use here in germany at an affordable price?

Danke
Filipe

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 11:33
von fff
Fpunk hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 11:27
Hi Brewers,

I'm startiung to make my beers in Germany and looking for a Sanitizer without rinsing with whater. I usually use Iodophor or Alcohol 70% but here looks not to easy to find.
Hi Filipe,

Iodophor - have a look at "Betaisodona" on the internet drugstores, should be the thing you are looking for.

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 11:53
von DerDerDasBierBraut
"Thonhauser TM 70" is an ethanol-based no-rinse spray disinfectant. It's certified for beer- and food equipment.

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 12:33
von Malzwein
Thonhauser TM 70 is only Ethanol 70% and <0.5 Methanol%? :Grübel

In this case i would use "Weingeist" or "Primasprit" 70%.

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 12:39
von DerDerDasBierBraut
TM 70 ist 70%iger Weingeist :Wink

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 12:59
von Fpunk
Those products are quite expensive!

This Ethanol could be used for this proposal?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B005EK ... UEDR&psc=1

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:16
von DerDerDasBierBraut
Fpunk hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 12:59
Those products are quite expensive!

This Ethanol could be used for this proposal?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B005EK ... UEDR&psc=1
No. This alcohol is denaturated and is not food-grade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol).

Isopropanol 70% is much cheaper than Ethanol. You can use it too, but you need to make sure that the Isopropanol is completely evaporated before using the disinfected equipment. A "wet-in-wet" desinfection is not possilbe with Isopropanol.

Another alternative is Wasserstoffperoxid 3% (hydrogen peroxide solution 3%).
Wasserstoffperoxid is a non-alcoholic sanitizer, that kills any kind of yeast and bacteria. It molders in oxygen and water and is 100% environment friendly. The equipment must be properly wet with hydrogen peroxide for a few minutes, for a proper desinfection.

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:46
von scne59
Cheapest alc. based sanitizer I could find: https://alkostore24.com/de/rasputin-70.html

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:58
von Fpunk
I still think it's expensive! I usually use 1 liter per batch. In Brazil, this costs around 2 euros a liter.

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:59
von Fpunk
DerDerDasBierBraut hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:16
Fpunk hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 12:59
Those products are quite expensive!

This Ethanol could be used for this proposal?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B005EK ... UEDR&psc=1
No. This alcohol is denaturated and is not food-grade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol).

Isopropanol 70% is much cheaper than Ethanol. You can use it too, but you need to make sure that the Isopropanol is completely evaporated before using the disinfected equipment. A "wet-in-wet" desinfection is not possilbe with Isopropanol.

Another alternative is Wasserstoffperoxid 3% (hydrogen peroxide solution 3%).
Wasserstoffperoxid is a non-alcoholic sanitizer, that kills any kind of yeast and bacteria. It molders in oxygen and water and is 100% environment friendly. The equipment must be properly wet with hydrogen peroxide for a few minutes, for a proper desinfection.
does it need to rinse too?

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 14:12
von DerDerDasBierBraut
Fpunk hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:58
I still think it's expensive! I usually use 1 liter per batch. In Brazil, this costs around 2 euros a liter.
Welcome to the land of Alkohol- and Biersteuer :Wink

1 liter Sanitizer per batch? Are you a professional or commercial brewer? If so, then you have to follow 1000 regulations, where you find approved sanitizers for professionals.
Fpunk hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:58
does it need to rinse too?
If Isopropanol evaporates to 100% it does not have to be rinsed.
If you mean Wasserstoffperoxid .. It's better to remove it completely or rinse with water, because residues have a high oxidation potential (hops, wort).

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 15:02
von scne59
Yep. 16,99€/l includes ~5,20€ for the product, the bottle and the label plus ~9,10€ alcohol tax and 2,70€ sales tax.
But it Norway it gets even worse. ;-)

Is a sanitizer based on phosphoric acid ok for you (aka. StarSAN)?
The "original" FiveStar StarSAN isn't currently available but a good replacement is called "Chemipro SAN".
That's around 30€ per liter of concentrate (1l means 600l of ready to use sanitizer solution). That's probably as cheap as it gets.
If you do not exceed the suggested dose and let it drip off thoroughly it's "no rinse" as well.
See http://brauen.online/vergleich/ for pricing and availability.

J.

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 15:09
von Fpunk
DerDerDasBierBraut hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 14:12
Fpunk hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:58
I still think it's expensive! I usually use 1 liter per batch. In Brazil, this costs around 2 euros a liter.
Welcome to the land of Alkohol- and Biersteuer :Wink

1 liter Sanitizer per batch? Are you a professional or commercial brewer? If so, then you have to follow 1000 regulations, where you find approved sanitizers for professionals.
Fpunk hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 13:58
does it need to rinse too?
If Isopropanol evaporates to 100% it does not have to be rinsed.
If you mean Wasserstoffperoxid .. It's better to remove it completely or rinse with water, because residues have a high oxidation potential (hops, wort).
:thumbup
I spray alcohol on all equipment after cleaning. From Pots, fermenters and all utensils. Just 40 liters per batch!

Maybe Betaisodona could be a good option. Need to check if is the same for Iodophor

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 15:11
von Fpunk
scne59 hat geschrieben:
Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 15:02
Yep. 16,99€/l includes ~5,20€ for the product, the bottle and the label plus ~9,10€ alcohol tax and 2,70€ sales tax.
But it Norway it gets even worse. ;-)

Is a sanitizer based on phosphoric acid ok for you (aka. StarSAN)?
The "original" FiveStar StarSAN isn't currently available but a good replacement is called "Chemipro SAN".
That's around 30€ per liter of concentrate (1l means 600l of ready to use sanitizer solution). That's probably as cheap as it gets.
If you do not exceed the suggested dose and let it drip off thoroughly it's "no rinse" as well.
See http://brauen.online/vergleich/ for pricing and availability.

J.
Looks good! Tks! :Drink

Re: Desinfektion ohne Spülen

Verfasst: Freitag 14. Februar 2020, 15:42
von DerDerDasBierBraut
This is important:
If you do not exceed the suggested dose and let it drip off thoroughly it's "no rinse" as well.
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