Englishman seeking advice!

[saintmatty]

Hello there!

Please forgive me for writing in English. I am an Englishman in Sweden and I have liked beer for many years, but in recent years I have come to appreciate more and more beers from Germany. I have been a homebrewer for 5 years and have brewed a few German-style beers but one style I have not yet properly attempted is a hoppy lager/kellerbier.

Do you have any tips or advice and tips for me regarding brewing this style? Are there any commercial clone recipes online? The ones I have enjoyed the most recently have been from St Georgen Bräu, Griess, Knoblach and Gänstaller. There is a pub in Stockholm which imports a lot of Franconian beers so that is probably why I most of those examples are from the same area!

Anyway, once again I apologise for writing in English. I would be most grateful for any help received. Please feel free to reply in German and I can use my rusty German skills, or google translate!

Prost!

Matt

[Kolbäck]

Hi Matt, and welcome to the forum!

I don't think people will mind a thread in English. There are many recipes for Kellerbier, for example here. As usual with lagers, the proper yeast and temperature control are they key to success. At least that is what is usually claimed.

Which Stockholm pub do you refer to? I live in Uppsala, not that far...

cheers

[saintmatty]

Thanks for the useful link! The pub I am referring to is Zum Franziskaner in Gamla Stan. I have had many great German beers there, with the focus being on Franconian beers.

Small world, I also live in Uppsala! Always funny for Germans!

[Kolbäck]

Small world, I also live in Uppsala!

Well, then we should exchange beers some time!

[saintmatty]

That would be fantastic!

[Johnny H]

[...] As usual with lagers, the proper yeast and temperature control are they key to success. At least that is what is usually claimed.
[...]

I also believe this is absolutely imperative to success in bottom fermenting i.e. brewing lager!

[Bierley]

If you are on facebook, I recommend a group called "German Brewing". It's a place for home brewers from everywhere who appreciate the German styles, the members discuss recipes and tricks in English.

Back to your question.
As mentioned before, using the right yeast and temperature is important, also keep in mind that lagers and lower temperatures require more yeast. For German styles you should obviously use German hops. Hops are and have always been expensive, so if you want to brew traditional styles don't overuse the hops for whirlpool additions, dry hopping, hop teas etc (although that doesn't mean it would be a bad beer if you do so anyway). Avoid adjuncts such as rice, corn, syrup, etc., and use German malts such as Pilsner, Vienna, Munich... Franconian beer's often feature some smoked malt as well.
A more advanced advice is using low oxygen brewing methods, try googling that.

[Bierwisch]

There is hop in Franconian beer? I think that´s a rumor...

[Bieryllium]

There is hop in Franconian beer? I think that´s a rumor...

This depends upon the beer style. Try Pilsner from franconia. There you will find hop bitterness. But I do agree that there's generally less bitterness in franconian beers.
A good commercial example (not only according to me) is Weiherer Pils. Meininger‘s International Craft Beer Award Gold Medal 2018 (1st rank).

[gulp]

Weniger bitter in Franken, kein Hopfen? Wasn Quatsch. Viele fränkische Biere sind hopfiger als z.B. in Oberbayern. Denken wir etwa an Spalter, Hetzelsdorfer Griess und Krug in Strullendorf usw. usw. Alles hopfige Biere mit teilweise mehr IBUs als so manches Fernseh Pils.

Gruß
Peter

[Bierwisch]

Peter, nimms mir nicht übel, aber die fränkischen Biere, die ich in den letzten beiden Jahren proBIERt habe, waren ausnahmslos viel zu malzig und ohne jede spürbare Hopfenbittere. Aber ich suche weiter.

[ggansde]

Wir hatten beim letzten MDHBT schon ein paar Zoigl, die gehörig Bittere hatten...
VG, Markus

[Bierwisch]

Echt? War ich da anwesend?

Der Wirt hat mir am späten Samstagabend Bier zum Kosten gegeben, das er nur für sich selbst braut und meinte, daß da ein bisschen mehr Hopfen drin wäre... Ich hab mir wirklich Mühe gegeben, aber so richtig hopfig war es nicht.

Und ich bin kein Hophead - meine Standardbiere haben immer so um die 35 IBU.

[flying]

Die Oberpfalz, Franken, Bayern? Für mich als Ossi eh alles das Gleiche aber egal...

Ich fand die Bittere der Zoigl richtig passend. Viel besser als langweilige bayrische Helle. Tippe so auf 25 - 28 IBU bei knapp 12 Plato.

Bei dem Hopfen meine ich herausgehört zu haben, dass der Hallertauer Tradition sehr beliebt ist.